There’s an ineffable quality to Kansas Bowling and her films that I’m simply not smart nor talented enough to describe. At 26 she’s already directed two feature length films–the first, B.C. BUTCHER, she made as a teenager for the legendary Troma Films, and the second, CUDDLY TOYS, is a truly underground smash that took years to get distribution because people were afraid to release.
You know you’re doing something right when people are legitimately afraid to be associated with your art.
She’s made tons of music videos for such diverse acts as Papa M, The Death Valley Girls, Surfbort, and Chicago’s own James Marlon Magas. She’s acted in movies directed by Quentin Tarantino and Glenn Danzig. She starred in a couple music videos for The Killers. She got Iggy Pop to eat a cheeseburger on film as an homage to Andy Warhol. She did this interview in the parking lot of a casino on a short break between gambling sessions.
I’m in my 40s, so I know that I probably have no idea what is cool these days.
But I also know that Kansas Bowling is cool in a way that never goes out of style.
Her newest film, CUDDLY TOYS, is one of the most exciting movies I’ve seen in years. Shot over the course of years on 16mm it’s a docu-fiction exploration of the life of the American Teenage Girl. Particularly, the horrors of being a teenage girl. Framed as an educational film, Bowling walks us through some of the most uncomfortable realities of contemporary teenage sexuality. Even though the (in)famous mondo exploitation film FACES OF DEATH always seems to come up as a comparison I’ve also seen names like Todd Solondz, Harmony Korine, Chantal Akerman, and Robert Altman thrown about, too.
Like I said, it’s gonna take someone smarter and more talented than I to fully explain CUDDLY TOYS.
What I can tell you, though, is that despite it being one of the most intense, transgressive, and often shocking films I’ve seen in quite a while, it’s also one of the funniest. Flat out.
Which makes it all the more intense.
The vibes are all over the place and always off the chart. Bowling has figured out how to make you laugh at things that aren’t funny in the least. The pitch-black humor of CUDDLY TOYS serves as both respite from the film’s intensity and as punctuation to the overall message. It’s a film that is social commentary without political ideology.
There is absolutely nothing more boring than people who make transgressive art for its own sake. People who think trying to shock people should be a goal in and of itself usually have the most banal outlook on the world anyway. They’re insufferable. If all you want to do is get a rise out of people, just go punch a stranger in the middle of the street. Any idiot can do that.
And Kansas Bowling is the furthest thing from that.
I got the chance to speak with her in preparation for her visit to Chicago where she’s doing an old school roadshow engagement of CUDDLY TOYS, with three screenings at three different theaters over the course of three days, as well as an evening of her short films and music videos at a fourth venue. We spoke about her navigating between her bare-bones style as a filmmaker while acting in major Hollywood films, about the acceptable and unacceptable ways we talk about sexual assault, why F FOR FAKE is probably the greatest film ever made, and dreaming about growing up and running a b-movie film studio.
This is an educational interview.
Raphael Jose Martinez: I'm curious about the life of this movie, not necessarily the production of it, but after you finished it. Because I've been seeing it for a couple of years now kind of surreptitiously in these kind of like, I don't want to say illegal screenings, but a gray area where it's just kind of friends of friends with you there to screen it. Now CUDDLY TOYS is getting an official release with an actual distribution company into, you know, above-ground theaters. What was the holdup? And what was the process of getting it from these DIY microcinemas to, say, Lincoln Center?
Kansas Bowling: Well, there's been issues with getting the music rights, which has been part of it. And then the other giant issue has been... people not wanting to touch the movie...
Both: [laughter]
KB: ...which I don't... I don't understand. Why not? People are so stupid. I just eventually had to get enough people interested… find some people and producers and supporters who are crazy enough to help it along, I guess.
RJM: I've seen this movie more times than I've seen a lot of movies just because…
KB: [laughs] That’s so funny!
RJM: ...because I work at a place that has screened it multiple times over the past couple years. And at least with the crowd that has been at Analog [a microcinema in Chicago] specifically, it's been like a word-of-mouth hit.
KB: That’s so cool.
RJM: We know that we can screen CUDDLY TOYS and, without even having to really promote it, it'll at least fill the place half up. So it's really interesting to find out that people have been upset by it… I mean, it doesn’t surprise me that people are upset by it…
Both: [laughter]
KB: Well, that's the thing! Once it actually screens most of the people really love it. But it's just like... If a distributor watches it, by themselves, not in a theater... they're like, “Oh, I don't know what people are gonna think about this. I don't know if I want to be involved.” It's just been really hard. And even with festivals, too. There's been some big festivals that were going to play it, and then there's been some internal controversy, and then they didn’t play it. I feel like it's people anticipating backlash that doesn't actually happen once people actually see it. Occasionally there is… some people have been mad. But not really, you know?
RJM: Joe Swanberg here in Chicago has been a huge, huge proponent of the film. That's how I found out about it.
KB: Yeah.
RJM: At Analog he made it a point to not tell anybody about the movie.
KB: [laughs]
RJM: Nothing context wise. Just, here's this really cool movie by this really cool, young director and so on and so forth. As if it's any other movie... because it is. It's just a movie. So it's been really interesting. I don't think anybody's walked out. There's been people afterwards who have been like, “I f*cking did not like that movie, but at least they sat around and talked about it, you know?
KB: Yeah.
RJM: Because it’s different in a crowd. I’ve only seen it one time not in a crowd, when I got a screener to give to the theater that I'm booking it at [Facets]. And yeah, watching it on a couch is a whole different experience than watching a roomful of people...
KB: [Laughs]
RJM: ...because I find it to be really funny...
KB: [laughs even harder]
RJM: It's a movie that, as f*cked up as it is, it’s got some of the funniest jokes I've seen in a long time... and some of the most, like, really depraved scenes. [Laughs] Do you think it's a comedy? Are you kind of bummed out when people don’t find the humor in it?
KB: So this is a part that I don’t know if I want in print… [laughs] ...because a lot of the scenes I find hilarious... and I didn't expect you all to be so mad! I don't know. I guess I have a dark sense of humor. I don't know what to say without sounding like a freak. Because people can make you sound really crazy.
RJM: So I’ve seen CUDDLY TOYS literally like five times in the theater at this point... which is insane. I know the scenes by the audio. If I'm working in the video store I know, “Okay, this scene’s coming up. I gotta go step into the theater and watch this part.” And I’ve found that the people that seem to be, at least in my experience from these multiple screenings that I’ve been at, the most uncomfortable by it have been men, not women.
KB: Yeah.
RJM: And the one scene that I'm speaking of, that I think is really funny, but makes me uncomfortable because I find it so funny, is the rape/assault scene at the picnic. There's one point where he leans in and licks a sandwich off of the girl’s face…
KB: [laughs]
RJM: ...and it's like a setup then punchline almost. Like it's all like leading up to this!
Both: [laughter]
RJM: And afterwards I've had conversations about that scene a couple of times, and everybody's like, “That is funny.” But at the same time it's really… real.
KB: I love her date small talk. It was really funny because she was me and my sister's roommate when we filmed that. And she was on a date with someone once and me and my sister crashed it. [laughs] And the small talk on her date was really similar to that. They were really silent, and then she's like, “So... what's your favorite Gatorade flavor?”
RJM: I mean, how can you take that scene too seriously when it starts with them pulling out champagne glasses and sharing a warm beer?
Both: [laughter]
RJM: I love the movie so much because it’s transgressive in a real way, in an honest way. It doesn't feel like it's shocking for the sake of being shocking, it feels like it is like trying to tell a story in kind of a really dark, humorous way. It really feels like you're leaning into the mondo exploitation… like the history of mondo exploitation movies. Because it does feel like MONDO NEW YORK, MONDO HOLLYWOOD, and FACES OF DEATH, which I know you've said was an influence on it.
KB: Yeah… thank you. I mean, I definitely was not trying to be shocking. I was just trying to make an honest movie and not censor myself or anything. I honestly never really even really thought about people reacting this way.
RJM: Have you had anybody not just dislike the movie, but be angry with you for making the movie?
KB: Yeah, a few times. Yeah.
RJM: That’s gotta be weird.
KB: It's always for really silly reasons. Like, they can't even really point out why they're upset. So it’s nothing to actually take seriously.
RJM: So in the past couple of days, I re-watched the movie a couple times and I reread the book that you wrote about the making of it. They both hold on their own, but obviously the book is a companion to the movie. But I really like how in the book you don't answer anybody’s critiques. You just kind of explain your thoughts on stuff. There's one thing that you say at the very end of the book, and I'm going to quote you to you, which I know is always like weird and embarrassing, but I’ve got to do it…
KB: [laughs]
RJM: You say, “It embarrasses me to have done it, even though I know it would have been impossible for me not to do. Just because I'm proud of something does not mean I ever have to watch it again.” I find that really fascinating because you're saying that you're not indebted to the past at all–you do stuff and you move forward–but so many of your influences, and your aesthetics are drawn from the past.
KB: Yeah…
RJM: Like, the mondo genre is kind of a dead genre as a film.
KB: Uh huh…
RJM: So I'm curious… how you do you take from the past but then just move forward with it. How do you cultivate all these things?
KB: First thing is… it's really funny because, obviously, I've seen the movie a million times. I edited it and I do screenings and stuff. But whenever someone talks about the book... I wrote it [laughs] and I never read it again [laughs even harder]. I don’t even remember what I wrote in it.
RJM: That's the thing that you actually don't care about anymore?
Both: [laughter]
KB: I’m here like, “I said that?!” [laughs] But that definitely is true. That's part of it. Once I make something I feel like I've grown from it and I'm past it. I've been working on this new movie for a really long time. The movie I'm working on now I've even been working on since I was making CUDDLY TOYS - at least in the pre-production research phase and stuff. And I already feel done with it–and I'm not done filming. I just like to move on. It's the only way to, I guess, grow as a filmmaker or artist or whatever. I just feel like there's too much, there's too much to do. Just you just got to make it, stop thinking about it, and do the next thing.
RJM: I agree. It's interesting how different mediums allow that. With film once you make it it's done. Unless you're going to be George Lucas and continuously edit your movies for the rest of your life, you just kind of put it in the can and let it be. Whereas I went to go see the Cure the other day, they play a song and I think to myself, “Man, you're in your 60s and you're playing a song that you wrote when you were a teenager.” That's gotta be...
KB: No. That's like a nightmare. I hate it when people ask me about Troma stuff. I just want to kill myself. I just hate it.
RJM: I didn't want to ask specifically about that, but as a segue... I've always been impressed by the amount, and the breadth, of different people you've been able to work with as somebody who's only done two features–but also a sh*t ton of shorts and music videos. In your first feature [B.C. BUTCHER] you had some pretty weird names that are celebrities in some capacity. You've done a music video with Iggy Pop. How have you gotten these people to work with you? Or how have you been able to work with these people?
KB: You just have to ask [laughs]. I mean, I've asked lots of people to be my projects and a lot of people have said no–but some people have said yes. It's been cool. Like with Iggy... I was supposed to do a video for the Death Valley Girls and he has a radio show, and I knew he'd been playing their music a lot lately, so I was like, “Why don't we just ask Iggy if he'd be in a video? He loves you guys.” And I did. His assistant responded like an hour later. He was like, “He would love to!” [laughs] Of course he had his conditions. We had to go to him in Florida. The shoot obviously lasted 10 minutes because it's one shot, one take. And I've acted in a bunch of things for other people, so I've met people other ways. It's just working on things and meeting people.
RJM: I come out of a DIY punk background, that whole scene, and went film school for a while and just stopped making movies because I was just like, “I don't want to work with like 20 people on anything ever.”
KB: Oh yeah.
RJM: I can barely be in a room to rehearse with three of my close friends. I can't imagine working with 20 strangers on, like, “my vision.” It sounds like hell. But your film making style seems like very, very akin to that. I know that on CUDDLY TOYS it was, for the most part, just you, your sister and your boyfriend. Do you have a background in underground arts besides film at all? Because I'm familiar with some of your boyfriend's old bands from back in the day [e.g., crucial Philly vampire-core band Ink & Dagger]. So I just always assumed that you might have had some connection to that somehow.
KB: I mean, not really. I've just kind of been doing it the same way that I started doing it. Because I made the Troma movie when I was like 17. My crew was… I had a cinematographer that I hired off of Craigslist [laughs], and then I had all my friends from high school, my dad did sound...
RJM: Wow. That's awesome.
KB: [laughs] Yeah!
RJM: I’m assuming he has no experience doing sound for anything ever.
KB: No, I just rented a Zoom and a boom mic. So you know, he’s just holding it over people and pressing record. [laughter] I just haven't done it any other way. But every time I'm on a set, like acting or something, or working on something where there's a giant crew, I'm just like, “Oh my god, this is a nightmare. I could never do this. This is so horrible.” Because l really don’t need anyone else. It's crazy.
RJM: What blew my mind is that I discovered who you were through CUDDLY TOYS, but then when I was looking into the person who made this movie I found out that you acted in a Tarantino movie [ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD]...
KB: [laughs]
RJM: ...and these are just two opposite worlds. Big budget Hollywood with a notoriously meticulous filmmaker... and you're stealing shots in Vegas in front of casinos. Watching you navigate between the two worlds is very John Cassavetes...
KB: Thank you.
RJM: How do you do that? Like, does one fuel the other?
KB: Umm.. like financially, yeah [laughs]. People always like, “Oh, how have you done so many music videos, and blah, blah, blah.” And I'm like, “Well, I’m poor! I have to!] How else do you think I can make my features?” Just a couple of weeks ago I was unit production manager on a short film that had like a 40-person crew…
RJM: For a short film? That’s crazy…
KB: I don't know. It's a crazy world, isn't it? A lot of it just seems unnecessary. I mean, I set up my own lighting usually. I'll have Don [Devore, Bowling’s boyfriend] or my effects girl, Lo, do the sound if she's not doing effects. Or if nobody's free to do the sound, I'll just like set it on the ground and press record.
Both: [laughter]
RJM: That's how I make my stuff. I also shoot on film, Super 8, so it's usually just me being like, “Go stand over there... Move that light before you hit your blocking...”
KB: It's just more that the looks I'm going after anyway are sort of from that style of filmmaking. Visually, I just would love if all my stuff just looked like Herschel Gordon Lewis movies. Not thematically but visually… which I think I got down pretty well with CUDDLY TOYS, because a lot of Herschel Gordon Lewis is sort of very small. A lot of it is indoor rooms with sort of spotlight lighting. My next movie I'm doing has a lot of outdoor scenery stuff. I'm really into a ‘70s trucker aesthetic too–just like, wide open roads. Trucker or weird road movies like BOBBY JO AND THE OUTLAW. Long zooms, things like that. All of that stuff that I'm into, you don't need like, three grips and three gaffers. For CUDDLY TOYS I shot half of it. Because I actually wasn't too confident as a cinematographer when I started CUDDLY TOYS I had a cinematographer. But pretty much halfway through I was just like, “Ehhh… give me the camera.”
Both: [laughter]
RJM: What weren’t you comfortable with? The technical aspect or the visual aspect of it?
KB: The technical aspect. I had never shot with that camera. I just got it. But eventually I just taught myself and I took over filming. And then anytime I'm on camera, Don shot it.
RJM: Those scenes are great. I’ve seen you talk about the movies, and it's obvious that you have a true passion for these really fringe exploitation sub genres. The white coat exploitation genre is something that is dead and gone and nobody really references it at all, and you have this perfect execution of it, where it seems industrial, and it seems medical, and it just also seems kind of... haphazard…
KB: [laughs]
RJM: ...not to say sloppy–because that'd be rude–but just a little bit like you can see the seams...
KB: Totally! I mean, it's like partially intentional [laughs]. Sometimes I’d be like, “Aww, f*ck! You can hear me stepping on the paper!” But then I'm like, “...ehhh, whatever.”
RJM: I mean, that's exactly how those movies were. They weren't made to be good. They were made to be made. They're like, “We're not here to create a picture. We're here to teach you about this thing.”
KB: Yeah, exactly.
RJM: Joe [Swanberg] showed me a short reel of the movie that you're working on now that’s similar to CUDDLY TOYS in the sense that it is kind of about Jane Doe victimization. What exactly is the theme with that one? Cause it looks good! It felt more like an overt horror movie as opposed to this existential, kind of thematic horror movie that CUDDLY TOYS is.
KB: I don't want to say too much about it because I haven’t announced the movie yet. But I will say I actually did start writing it as sort of a CUDDLY TOYS sequel, but then it turned into its own thing. I thought... what if I did a sequel where it's stories about real girls, just true stories. But then it turned into this whole thing we're I’m getting involved with, like, detectives all across the country...
Both: [laughter]
RJM: Whoa! So this has become like a legit true crime…
KB: [laughs] Yeah, like, trying to solve crimes. I've been like an amateur detective the last few years...
RJM: That's wild.KB: [laughs] Yeah! Once you get into it you find out a lot of these unsolved cases are just unsolved because nobody's doing anything about it. They just kind of gave up like 40 years ago. There's all this new technology, and they're like, “Oh, yeah... that case. We haven't thought about that in a couple decades.” They just need someone to, like, poke around a little.
RJM: There's a line, I think now more than ever, where… exploitation fare used to be so looked down upon historically. Look at the ‘60s through the ‘80s. It was just “trash cinema” and “pulp” and stuff like that. True Crime obsession has gone mainstream–or if not mainstream, it's become acceptable.
KB: Mmhmm.
RJM: Do you see a kind cleansing with that? Because CUDDLY TOYS still has this kind of sordid feel to it. Like, there's still elements of that movie where it feels like you're watching something you're not supposed to be watching…
KB: [laughs]
RJM: Whereas people are trying to make careers out of true crime podcasts, where they're trying to appeal to the widest possible people while just exploiting, like, literally exploiting people's tragedy.
KB: Yeah… I don't know if I have anything to say about that…
RJM: [laughs] That’s fair.
KB: Well… a lot of people... I don't know... I don't want to get into this. I'm gonna say something that's gonna make me sound like a real asshole [laughs]...
RJM: That's fine. That's fine. [laughs] I just think it's like really silly. Growing up, where I did, when I did–I'm from Chicagoland–I remember when Gacy was executed. I remember where I was when Dahmer was killed in prison. As if it was like 9/11 or something. Like, I remember exactly where I was when I heard the news. And so I just find how all of these wine moms talk about this...
KB: Yeah...
RJM: ...like weird and sad, and kind of just … boring.
KB: There's like trends of acceptable ways to talk about things.
RJM: That's a great way to put it. Because I think that CUDDLY TOYS talks about stuff that people talk about all the time, and that people make millions of dollars talking about, but the way that you're doing it is not the “okay” way. It's not the approved way of doing it. Do you think that's kind of the issue?
KB: I guess, yeah. This could be a whole other conversation… but it's sort of like the conversation about like, rape culture, and how it's just been this huge conversation the last like six years, or however long it's been. And all you hear all day is “rape, rape, rape, rape, rape...” But then if you, god forbid, make something that's influenced by hearing that word 24/7 then, like, you’re a monster. I don’t know. [laughs] See, this is where I go and say silly things. No one's calling me a monster.
RJM: At a certain point when something becomes part of the cultural conversation why are people shocked when people talk about it in uncomfortable ways?
KB: Yeah.
RJM: Which is why I liked watching that movie. Every time I watch it, I get something more out of it. Because once the immediate discomfort of certain scenes in your film are gone, that immediate shock… I mean, every time I watch that movie I find it f*cking funnier.
KB: [laughs]
RJM: Is it because I've been desensitized to it?
KB: [laughs harder]
RJM: Or is it because I'm able to get past looking around like, “Is it okay for me to laugh at this? Are people gonna f*cking judge me for enjoying this? Am I supposed to enjoy this type of thing?”
KB: There are horrible things that happen in the world every day. So I feel like, you know, you don't have to be sad all the time. You're allowed to find the irony in something horrible and laugh about it.
RJM: That's absolutely true. People who don't want to have fun will make sure that nobody gets to have fun. That's just how it seems to be. Or they’ll make it their point to try to make sure that nobody gets to have fun.
KB: Yeah. Like when we did the double rape scene, we were all laughing, having fun, while we were filming it. And we're just like, “Oh my god, wouldn't it be so funny if like, right before this girl dies, she's just talking about, like, what she wants to be when she grows up and stuff?” [laughter] Like, it's just horrible, really awful stuff. And you know, when that happens in real life, it's god awful. But you know, I've been around things like that, too. And it's not fun. But then… I don't know... when you see it so in your face like this… you can't even really tell in the voiceover where she's walking over to the car hitchhiking, but we did this really funny voiceover where she's like, “Oh, I love Ted Bundy... his eyebrows remind me of my dad.” [laughs] “When I grow up, I want to have a clothing store in Haight-Ashbury...”
Both: [laughter]
KB: It’s stupid, but...
RJM: Going back to what you were saying before, I think that because of your purposeful blending of reality and complete fiction–ridiculous, over-the-top fiction–people just want to assume that everything is the most serious and the most real, and they can't like enjoy it. Like, it's a movie. It's just a movie, guys.
KB: Even in real life, though. There's some really, god awful things that have happened. And, you know, part of the way to deal with them is just to find the really ridiculous part in it and laugh about it.
RJM: In your book, you talk about how it was harder to find guys to do the rape scenes than to do murder scenes.
KB: [laughs] Yeah.RJM: People were dropping out, people didn't want to do but then begrudgingly did it anyway, because they’re like, “I guess I committed to it. I have to do it.” You talked about how when you were actually doing it, you guys were cutting it up and having fun. How you actually got to where they feel like, “Oh, this isn't gonna be like a heavy thing.” How did you work as a director with the actors to be like, “Ok. Rape this teenage girl...”
KB: Well, I didn't do it in a way where… [laughs] this might get me in trouble. I shouldn’t… I’m not one of those people who is like, [serious, concerned voice] “Are you going be okay?” Like, I feel like that just makes it more awkward, you know? I don't know. They agreed to do it. So okay, let's just go do it. That's fine. And then everyone laughs after. I don't know. I don't know what to say about that...
RJM: I just found it interesting that you made that a point to talk about in your book, that actors are more uncomfortable with doing anything that involves sexual assault than murder, or anything like that.
KB: Yeah. Someone actually, like specifically, said that. I don't remember which scene it was where I was going to shoot in somebody's car, I think it might have been for the double rape scene. I think it was gonna be in this dude's van at first, and he's like, “Oh, yeah... I mean... You can, like, kill the girls in the van, but you can't rape them in it.”
RJM: What?KB: [laughs] “Okay, we just won't use it then.” It’s so stupid. I can't remember who it was.
RJM: ...but what a strange line to draw...
KB: [laughs] That's what I've actually heard about my next movie, that it's gonna be a lot easier to get distribution because the girls die.
RJM: Yeah, because as a society, we're more okay with killing women more than hurting women. Not that either one of them is good at all, or should happen at all, please let me be clear…
KB: [laughs]
RJM: ...but what a weird line to draw–especially when it comes to the arts. Like, why one and not the other
KB: I honestly don't understand at all. I don't I don't even know what to say about it. I just don't get it. It’s really stupid.
RJM: I'm curious about some of your influences as a filmmaker, not directly in regard to CUDDLY TOYS, or your new project or anything, but in general. I remember once when you came to Chicago for a screening you programmed THE SWIMMER at Analog, which I had never heard of. I just went in there and like 30 minutes into the movie I'm like, “Is this just about a dude swimming through people's f*cking swimming pools? This is the wildest thing I’ve ever seen in my f*cking life.”
KB: [laughs]
RJM: It's this weird B-movie from the middle of an era that's like post-New Hollywood but pre-video. What other films from that era are influences on you? Because I know that you had said that was an influence in some capacity on your filmmaking.
KB: Yeah, that's definitely in my top 10. I think it's just an incredible movie. I think MIDNIGHT COWBOY is probably the greatest movie ever made.
RJM: Only X-rated movie to ever win an Oscar.
KB: Best Picture! Yeah, I think that's the greatest movie ever made. My favorite movie of all time probably is F FOR FAKE, the Orson Welles movie.
RJM: That is one of my favorite movies. Top five of all time. That is the magic of cinema, of what film can do.
KB: Every time I watch it, I feel like I'm just holding my breath the whole time. Like, oh my god. It’s so perfect and beautiful. Same with MIDNIGHT COWBOY, though. I'm just like, man… every single shot was so thought out about how the movie was going to be edited. Just everything. It's just… it's perfect. My favorite director probably, as his whole body of work, is Russ Meyer. I think SUPER VIXENS is one of the greatest movies ever made. Also, Robert Altman's POPEYE.
RJM: Really?
KB: Yeah. It's perfect. It's really perfect. And then I love, of course, all the Italian horror movies… DON’T TORTURE A DUCKLING, the Fulci movie, is also one of my favorites. There's a movie called THE WITCH WHO CAME FROM THE SEA–that's also one my favorite movies. Oh! SOMEWHERE IN TIME...
RJM: I don’t know that one.
KB: I think it's the most romantic movie ever made. It's Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour. It's written by Richard Matheson. And it's directed by the guy who directed the majority of the Night Gallery episodes, which is one of the best shows ever. The Rod Serling show after The Twilight Zone. SOMEWHERE IN TIME is a little square compared the other ones but I think it's beautiful.
RJM: I have a question that kind of ties into all that, because all of these you’re naming are from a specific era, which overlaps with the first thing you see when CUDDLY TOYS comes on screen… the Crown International Pictures logo. How did you get that? They don't exist.
KB: Uhh… [laughs] I haven’t asked yet.
RJM: Awesome.
KB: When I was like a little girl, it was my dream to be the president of Crown International Pictures [laughs]. When I was like, either 17 or 18, or something like that, I worked like one day a week at Gagosian Gallery in Beverly Hills. I would take a bus, and I would get off at this bus stop that was right in front of the abandoned Crown International Building. I would look in the window every day and be like, “Someday! It’s all gonna be mine!” But now it's like a car dealership or something [laughs].
RJM: That's even better. A perfect metaphor.
KB: I wouldn't want a building in Beverly Hills anyways now. I'm a different person.
RJM: Charlie Chaplin lived in Chicago for like a hot minute making silent films before they moved out to L.A. There’s still the studio building where he created his Tramp character and stuff like that. They sold the building to a college. So I drive by it all the time like, “Oh, look, the history of cinema.”
KB: That's so cool. Now where I live is right where Mark Twain first started writing. So I’m always like, “Man, American humor was invented right here!” So that's even better.
RJM: That is actually much better than wanting to have an old warehouse in Beverly Hills, that's for sure.
KB: Yeah… I f*cking hate L.A. now. So I'm never going back.
RJM: Maybe that's why Chicago loves CUDDLY TOYS so much...
KB: Because you guys hate L.A.?
Both: [laughter]
RJM: Exactly.
KB: It’s a truly awful place.
RJM: I just got one last question for you. I ask this to everybody that I interview... What's one thing that you know to be 100% true, that somebody else would say is not a fact. Something that is a core belief to you but somebody else would debate you on.
KB: Reincarnation?
RJM: Yeah?
KB: [laughs]
RJM: Have you thought about what you have been before?
KB: Yeah. I think I was a trucker. Yeah... for sure, actually.
